The Least of These











{June 16, 2008}   Loosing Grace

The Prophet Joseph Smith was often asked, “What are the fundamental principles of your religion?”

“The fundamental principles of our religion are the testimony of the Apostles and Prophets, concerning Jesus Christ, that He died, was buried, and rose again the third day, and ascended into heaven; and all other things which pertain to our religion are only appendages to it.”

(“Who is Jesus Christ?”; Teachings of Presidents of the Church: Joseph Smith (2007), 49)

Last Wednesday night, I asked the missionaries and WP, to share with me what they thought was the most important doctrine/idea/teaching that was essential in the LDS church. A few days later, I went and opened up my March edition of the Ensign. It was still in it’s wrapping, not even opened. While reading the article, “Who is Jesus Christ?” I found the above statement by Joseph Smith. And found so much peace in it.

As fed up as I am by the denominations, preferences, and everything else right now – I began to think about how there is a difference between an essential and a preference.

I think back over the last couple of years and have realized two major things:

1. I’ve never known the lasting amazing peace as a Protestant Christian that I knew as a Mormon. The grace I had in my life, the transformation of who I was and who God was refining me to be – it all was so amazing and awesome. It’s a time in my life that I can only describe as filled with peace and grace.

2. The personal relationship I’ve had with God in the last year has greatly increased. Steve and I describe it like going to Costco on a Saturday vs enjoying the full buffet.

I feel like the more I’ve been out of the LDS church, the more grace I have lost, the less peace I’ve had, and the more I know there is something missing.

“And this is the gospel, the glad tidings, which the voice out of the heavens bore record unto us—

“That he came into the world, even Jesus, to be crucified for the world, and to bear the sins of the world, and to sanctify the world, and to cleanse it from all unrighteousness;

“That through him all might be saved whom the Father had put into his power and made by him” (D&C 76:40–42).

The rest of it – all these denominations and everything else that our SIN puts in the way, are just unimportant. They’re man made walls, not God given boundaries.

maggielselah @ 3:03 pm [filed under Uncategorized tagged , , , , , 1 Comment »


{June 5, 2008}   Pondering the Temple

I really wanted to take a systematic approach to LDS doctrines – going through the Book of Mormon (woot woot working through 1 Nephi for like the zillioneth time), going through the Articles of Faith, sitting down with the missionaries and getting a more even balanced approached to LDS teachings – especially those I might just sincerely misunderstand. I’ve been planning on packing myself up and go doing some studying on the temple grounds and of course some praying. I’m back on track for my daily Bible reading – let me say, I am SO thankful to be through the book of Joshua and Judges. Whoa! What challenging books! Josab, “Let’s get up and go,” to his unconcious gang raped concubine. :P On a random side note – I was pretty surprised to hear the word, “Lehi” in the book of Judges (where Samson was taken to be delivered to the Philistines).

Anyways, today I began thinking about the temple – an ultimate goal for all LDS. I loved the temple – even after leaving was very close mouthed about the ceremonies within because of the covenants I made. I began thinking of the temple recommend interview, about the ceremonies inside, and of course the Holy Garment of the Priesthood. Would the temple be something I could support? Would it be something that I didn’t feel clashed with the Bible?
First, the temple recommend interview questions:

1. Do you believe in God, the Eternal Father, in his Son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Ghost; and do you have a firm testimony of the restored gospel?

2. Do you sustain the President of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as the prophet, seer, and revelator; and do you recognize him as the only person on the earth authorized to exercise all priesthood keys?
3. Do you sustain the other General Authorities and the local authorities of the Church?

4. Do you live the law of chastity?
5. Is there anything in your conduct relating to members of your family that is not in harmony with the teachings of the Church?
6. Do you affiliate with any group or individual whose teachings or practices are contrary to or oppose those accepted by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, or do you sympathize with the precepts of any such group or individual?

7. Do you earnestly strive to do your duty in the Church; to attend your sacrament, priesthood, and other meetings; and to obey the rules, laws, and commandments of the gospel?

8. Are you honest in your dealings with your fellowmen?

9. Are you a full-tithe payer?


10. Do you keep the Word of Wisdom?

11. Have you ever been divorced or are you now separated from your spouse under order of a civil court? If yes, (a) – Are you current in your support payments and other financial obligations for family members, as specified by court order or in other written, binding commitments? (b) Were there any circumstances of transgression in connection with your divorce or separation that have not been previously resolved with your bishop?

12. If you have received your temple endowment — (a) Do you keep all the covenants that you made in the temple? (b) Do you wear the authorized garments both day and night?

13. Has there been any sin or misdeed in your life that should have been resolved with priesthood authorities but has not?

14. Do you consider yourself worthy in every way to enter the temple and participate in temple ordinances?

Answers to possibly challenging questions:

1. Hmmm – for sure something I would have trouble with. I certainly believe in the three members of the Trinity/Godhead. But a firm testimony of the Restored Gospel? Not right now. I certainly believe it’s totally possible (even likely) that there was a global apostacy – which means, that there was a loss of authority on the Earth to act in God’s binding name, not that Christians were not actually present on the Earth. I do certainly believe it is possible that Joseph Smith was a prophet – he is no better or worse than any of the other men in the Bible, from Jonah, Solomn, David, even Abraham. So while I believe the Restoration is POSSIBLE, I certainly do not associate myself as a believer of it.

2 & 3. I think if I come to the conclusion that the LDS church is authoritative that this would certainly follow. Currently, right now – that’s not my personal stance. Although, I do believe that God WOULD have an authority on the Earth since He is always the same yesterday, today, and tomorrow. ;)

7. I think this one freaks a lot of “grace alone” adherents out. Personally, while I don’t believe I can “earn” my salvation, I do believe what the Bible says, “to work out our salvation with fear and trembling”. I’ve always favored legalism – so this would be quite the challenge for me. To do things, to be obediant because I desire to be sanctified by God, because I love God, and because I am thankful for His forgiveness and not because I believe I am earning favor.

Philip 2:12
12 Wherefore, my beloved, as ye have always obeyed, not as in my presence only, but now much more in my absence, work out your own salvation with fear and trembling.

13. I wonder what the policy is on apostates… I guess I should add that to my list of questions for the missionaries.

14. I have ALWAYS struggled with this question. Since the temple is in many ways, is a holy and sacred place – where God “can show up” so to speak, then this is a question I always want to say, “no”. Of course I’m not worthy to enter. What is considered worthy? Obeying a few basic laws of the Gospel?

At this point, I begin reflecting on the temple – it’s purpose for example. It’s not just a place to meet with God (which again can be anywhere) but also a place where holy and sacred ordinances are performed by those with the “proper authority”. The dead are baptized (1 Cor 15:12-15), people make covenants with God. With proper authority – just like with Joshua, Moses, Abraham, etc. All these people INITIATED covenants with God. For example, Joshua initiated a covenant with Israel that she would not serve any other gods except their Lord and God (Elohim). Couples are sealed together for time and eternity (Matt 16:19, Matt 18:18) and of course there is the Celestial Room. It’s where Spencer W. Kimball wrote “The Miracle of Forgiveness”, where Lorenzo Snow received his confirmation of the eternal progression doctrine that Joseph Smith, Jr introduced in the King Follett Sermon.

One of (but not the most) powerfully intimate moments I’ve ever experienced with God was in the Endowment Ceremony. A ceremony I’ve learned, a few LDS tend to nap through (usually men :P ) but was very powerful for me. I don’t know why, but at the end I felt so overwhelmed by God’s Spirit that I was crying as I waited to be called. The temple was always a place of peace for me, I have no huge issues with the questions in the recommend interview, but what about garments? And silly Protestant protests that they are ungodly and masonic?

I’ve thought about this as well. I recall from LDS apologetics that the cross wasn’t always a Christian symbol. In fact, it was used (and still is) by Neo-Pagans for example. It is also easily argued that the cross was a symbol of cruel death. So the question becomes, what power is really in a symbol? Is it tainted by a use of it, or does the “power” come from the person using it? When a Christian wears a cross, are they thinking Neo-Pagan or are they thinking of their Savior? Using this same logic, technically, when LDS are wearing the Holy Garment of the Priesthood, are they thinking, “masons” or are they thinking of temple covenants that they made, their Heavenly Father, and holding tight to the Iron Rod? It would of course be the latter. They’re not thinking of masons or trying to get ahead in the mason ladder – they’re (hopefully since ANYTHING in ANY religion can be legalistic) thinking of the temple, of God, and of Jesus.

So I have no problems with garments either. They are a daily, physical reminder for me of my faith just as a cross is. And I personally wouldn’t have a problem wearing my cross and the HGoP together. :)

When pondering the temple – I do have to say I am not looking forward to wearing garment modest clothes in the summer here. That always was my greatest challenge. I’m feel hot and uncomfortable sometimes in the middle of winter (I swear I’m in eternal menopause) so wearing garments and modest clothes is not something I’m looking forward to. Although, that of course would be a long ways off since I’d be starting from scratch, at the bottom again. ;) Whew! Dodging that bullet for a little longer. 120 degrees sucks in a tank top and modest shorts… :P

I’ve also been thinking about the ceremonies themselves – which involve a few possibly challenging things. Accepting the authority of the LDS church to act, speak, and seal in God’s name. The doctrines of pre-existence – of course I don’t seem any Biblical clashing with this doctrine and really have no problem with it. The idea, practice, or doctrine (not sure what it would be) that we can make covenants with God today, which again, I see nowhere in the Bible that says we can’t, so no issue there. Overall, thinking the ceremonies from the ground up, as that is how the temple is organized. I see no issues theologically with the temple.

I do want to take a moment to add. That in the last two weeks, as I’ve allowed myself to really think about possibly returning to the LDS church and then blogging openly about my thoughts on the matter, I find myself so much at ease and excited and happy. I sort of wish I could just go straight back – but don’t want to be impulsive or a flake. I am also really grateful for this journey – there are so many things I’ve been really learning – not just reading or hearing in a sermon, and totally appreciating from Grace Point. I’m learning that no amount of head knowledge will make me obediant or mature. I’m learning that God isn’t confined to the box so many of us put Him in. I’m learning that there are Protestant churches out there that know how to serve just to serve, and not with a track, agenda, or Bible in their other hand. And I’m learning a true appreciation for the passionate love people have for Jesus. I’m thankful for all these things but most of all I am learning that I am a Mormon through and through. I don’t know how I would describe myself to others who don’t read my blogs – Christian, Mormon, both? But I’m okay with that. I don’t need other people to define me and really, even I don’t need to define me. I just need to know how God sees me and live day by day in that blessing.

maggielselah @ 7:33 pm [filed under Religion, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints tagged , , , , , , , , , , , , , 4 Comments »


{May 6, 2008}   Legalistic about being Legalistic

I had an awesome conversation with my friend Barbie today. She’s going through sort of the opposite of what I went through a year ago. She was a Fundamental, Evangelical passionate Christian and recently returned to the Catholic Church. She’s a very passionate person and throws herself 200% into everything she does. However, many people are putting her and her faith under a microscope and I don’t just mean in an apologetics kind of way either. She’s got it from all sides.

As she shared with me how her Mormon MIL and Evangelical FIL were questioning her, we entered into a very interesting conversation about legalism and the church. There are plenty of groups that claim absolute truth – Mormons, Catholics, and JWs to name a few. And I can certainly see the benefit of having total and complete truth. But at a certain point, truth ends and preferences begin.

For example, we discussed something her Priest had shared. You can read her whole blog about appropriate behavior for mass (or as she shares, for any worship). As I read through these things, I could surely see how they were appropriate for a Catholic and even LDS style church, however to put these standards on the whole body of Christ was just – in my opinion – wrong. It lacked grace and it lifted up division rather than unity.

When I was LDS, I wholeheartedly gave myself to God – I knew that I was a sinner in need of redemption and that only the work of Jesus (grace) could bridge that gap that for me. Now at what point did my beliefs become heretical and at what point, would God turn from someone who held heretical beliefs, yet still accepted Jesus as their Savior and Redeemer? At what point, do opinions become dogma and dogma replaces truth and relationship?

It seems to me – as a relative new Evangelical – that the non-denoms, Evangelicals, and Fundamentalists have become legalistic ABOUT not being legalistic. It’s mind blowing. Since I don’t know much by either experience or head knowledge about Catholicism, I’ll have to stick with Mormonism. I’ve said this many times over at my other two blogs – the LDS church is the very model that the Christian church should strive to emulate. Please note – I am not in anyway referring to doctrine – in fact I am very much NOT referring to doctrine. But rather organization, fellowship, and lifestyle living. Not doctrine. But there are things within the LDS church that aren’t doctrine per se but rather perhaps dogma that I really disagree with. For example, I loved how modesty and reverence were stressed within the church. Members knew that Sunday is God’s day and as such, would for example dress appropriately. They wanted to give their best to God and as such, dressed their best as well. They put forth effort for God, instead of rolling out of bed, chewing some gum and coming to church looking like they had just left Studio 54.

However, the downside of this is that if someone came to church not wearing a dress/skirt or tie and slacks, then I would wager their mind wouldn’t be on the Gospel but rather on their discomfort for being inappropriately dressed. And that’s not right. I imagine Jesus welcoming people to Him – regardless of what they are wearing.

I think it’s great that churches are encouraging their congregations/parishes/wards to live to a higher standard, but at the same time am quite disappointed with the Evangelicals who seem to have a legalism-phobia. I will probably battle with legalism until the day I die, but being afraid of it isn’t going to help anything. Being aware and knowing the warning signs, will. I think condemning those believe in living an upright, moral life and yes, focusing on the works and therefor very fruit of their lives is wrong.

In our personal lives, how many times do we look at the dogma and/or doctrine that someone believes instead of their love for God? I don’t believe any one church has it 100% right out there, but I think overall we have to find where God calls us to.

In the last year trying to fit into our church, I’ve gone through stages about leaving the LDS church. And I’ve come to the conclusion, that we certainly could have remained in the LDS church and still been “heaven bound” but that God pulled us out not only for further growth but also to shake people up. Our Bishop did a double take when we explained that God was pointing us elsewhere, Christians did a double take when I’d share that I believed that Jesus died for my sins and that His work was sufficent for me and yet – I was LDS. I think God does this all the time. He shakes us up – tried to remind us that He doesn’t fit into a tidy little box. He’s God, we’re not. Remember, when Jesus came, He shook up the religious leaders of His day – He was certainly not what they expected. Would we too be shocked if He came for a visit? We have so many preconceptions about people because of what they believe instead of trying to be like God, and learning what’s in people’s hearts.

maggielselah @ 7:23 pm [filed under Grace Point, Religion, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints tagged , , , , , , , , , , Leave a Comment »


et cetera